Will the Real Atheist Please Stand Up?
Here’s a petition for the committed atheist out there to speak out for what they believe in.
Been having another interesting conversation between several theists and an atheist (See Case against Atheism – Atheist Scientists), and it seems to distill to a single point – what exactly is atheism?
Some claim that it is the lack of belief in a god; some say it is the staunch belief in no God. Others go to say that atheism have various degrees, in which “weak atheism holds the former stand while “strong” atheism holds the latter stand.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I always thought that someone who lacks belief in a god is a freethinker? Another thing that strongly disturbs me is the flexible definition placed in the different degrees of atheism. A lack of belief and a belief in no God may sound similar on the surface but have a world of differences between them. How is it that by varying the degrees of atheism, it allows for changes done to its fundamental core beliefs? Just like if we were to vary the tone of red, we an only get a lighter red or a darker red. Pink would be out of the question. A flexible core belief belongs to an inconsistent religion, best suited for an illogical race; choose for yourselves a stand which you think is worth defending.
Is the discussion the misrepresentation of views from an erroneous atheist, uninformed theist or atheism does indeed have various different core beliefs? Perhaps then we have just witnessed the birth of the atheistic denominations.
Interesting Post, there.
I’ll just leave in my two cents.
Firstly, if atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair colour.
Secondly, and here’s how I look at it: If I say I am an “Atheist”, then I know for sure, and am convinced that there is no God.
And hence people who stick by this term, are, well, I would say extremely irrational, and in no way free-thinkers.
A much more holistic term for some people who blindly use “Atheism”. is “Agnosticim”, which means I am not sure, and am not convinced either way, whether there is a God or not. I am not a very ardent believer, but neither do I say that there cannot be any God.
What I in fact am, is a believer. I used to be an agnostic, but I now believe.
I see immense beauty all around; immense symmetric complexities in the way that everything works: the way the universe works, the way life works, and the way our human body works. And when I see all this, I cannot fool myself in saying that everything is, as people like Dawkins put it, an unconsequential series of co-incidental cosmic accidents.
I see a reason for living this life, this gift of God to me.
Which I never can see if I am just an accident; for then it matters not whether i commit suicide, rape a hundred women, or go on a murder spree. Because since everything is an accident, how does it matter?
No. We are not accidents. Even if you believe in coincidences, to believe in such infinite number of coincidences is preposterous.
If you have studied biology, and something as simple as the human eye, you will be enthralled. Because you will see that there has to be some intelligent source which created that. For it to be a complete accident that how the light falls on the eye, and how through an immense series of inter-related phenomenon, I see and percieve what I see, is completely preposterous for my mind.
And for there to be similar accidents not just for us humans, but for all other living organisms that have eyes; well…what can I say?
My point here is this. That we have the right to be confused about things. (Agnosticism). God likes it when we question things and then believe in Him even after all the questioning, because then our belief is not blind. We questioned and reasoned it out to ourselves that He exists.
But to blind to all of these beautiful intelligence all around us, and to stand up and shout that there is no God and that ther can be no God, is, well, quite the opposite of the term you used, that of “freethinking”.
Hey ZumZedh,
“if atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair colour.”
If humor is abstract, then you have elevated it to an art form… Haha. Seriously man, that was a wonderful analogy!
Thanks very much for sharing your personal experience! So just to erase all doubt (in me), which god do you belief in now?
Well, it seems like even the very definitions of free thinker and atheism comes under fire nowdays. We may boast that Information Technology may be getting better, but information itself sure isnt getting any clearer…
Wait, Wait, Wait, Wait!!!!
My gosh…I forgot to give the credit there…that analogy is not my own. I read it somewhere quite some time back. I can’t even recall clearly whose it is; but I’m getting a feeling (could be very wrong), that it was Mark Twain.
So, though I would love to, but I cannot take the credit for elevating humour to an art form
Anyway;
I believe in Christ. But I do not fix myself to a particular Christian Denomination. I believe in the school of thought that all of the denominations are correct; just that they look at the mystery of God through different windows.
It’s as if the mystery of God is in the centre of a rectangle. And all of the 4 corners of the rectangle are like windows. Every window offers a part of a view towards the centre. Some windows look through scripture, some rely more on tradition, whereas some rely more on reasoning, etc.
But none of the windows in themselves are wholly sufficient in giving a picture of God.
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hehe…Definitely, the information keeps on getting more and more convoluted
If you’re not getting many responses, it’s probably because you’re already displaying your assumptions by the end of the first sentence. Atheism is a lack of belief in supernatural gods. All of them, not just yours.
It’s not a “core set of beliefs”: what would be the point in giving up one set of irrational beliefs, just to replace them with something equally irrational? But no, that does NOT mean that atheists “believe nothing”, as your preacher likes to tell you, it’s more that those beliefs would be called “humanism”, or “logical positivism”, and rational in nature.
“Morals” are an example: it’s quite rational for people in society to set standards for behaviour that are based on common experiences (over millennia) and shared values - so again, when someone says “atheists have no morals”, that’s just an attack from ignorance.
I don’t think you need to make a hard statement such as “there are NO gods” to be an atheist. That presumes complete knowledge about the whole universe. So what? Without real evidence behind any of the claims made by the religions, evidence that is independent of humans and their worldviews and biases, the rational rational way to live your life is without belief, without submitting to religion in any way.
Thanks Brian for you insight!
Well, I read thru my article, i couldn’t really find out the place which you said me defining atheism to be lack of belief in MY god. Haha. Assuming my God is the christian God, i agree that not believing my God won’t make you an atheist, just mabbe non-christian? Haha.
So if i were to summarise your article, the bottom line would be “Atheism is a lack of belief in supernatural gods.” Yea? Do feel free to correct me on this if im wrong.
Nah, I would be standing on your side as well if you were thinking that i was disagreeing that atheism beliefs in nothing. I think they belief in something. However, that something would be believing in: No gods. At least thats what I thought until some other atheist like you came along and redefined atheism as the lack of beliefs. So this post is to clarify the definitions by atheist themselves.
The interesting thing is that those atheist that believe in the negative absolute of the statments of there being no gods have been very silent till now. Haha.
Brian, I would like to correct you. Or rather inform you that you are not an “atheist”, if you have no beliefs. Rather, you are an agnostic.
After all, both of these are English Words, right?
Well, here’s how the Oxford English Dictionary defines them:
In fact, you are not even really an agnostic. You say you have no beliefs whatsoever. Well, then I don’t know where to categorize you, but you’re certainly not an atheist then. Also, any person who has questioned himself with proper rationality, whose side you are apparently taking, must inevitably come to questions the answers to which you can only believe in.
Here’s an example. Rationality cannot answer this question. The question is: Why do we exist on earth?
Now you can either believe that you are a cosmic accident and hence your existence is inconsequential and hence there is no reason for you to exist.
Or, you can believe that there is a God. And he has some reason for you to exist.
It’s a 50-50 question. And there cannot really be a third option. What God and what reasons are a different issue altogether, which is not being discussed here.
Now, if you have no beliefs whatsoever, I would really really like to know your answer to this question. Because both the possible answers are beliefs, not rational or scientific answers. And such can never be there of such a question.
And, an important point I want to highlight is, that ignoring such a question also would mean that you are deviating from your point of view of being “Rational”. Because any question is rational. Especially questions of what, where, when, how and why.
I really think you can’t equate “lack of belief in god(s)” with atheism, because when you say you’re an atheist, you’re already acknowledging the concept of “god” *in order to not believe in one*. I mean, c’mon, you DEFINITELY can’t say you don’t believe in fairies if you don’t know what on earth is a fairy first. Hence you can’t say you’re an atheist if you don’t know what’s “theist” first. To say otherwise would be logically absurd. You can’t negate something unless you have something to negate.
Brian,
Yes, it is a core set of beliefs. Since ancient times atheism has existed, even if it has lacked the formalizations of other religions.
“I don’t think you need to make a hard statement such as “there are NO gods” to be an atheist.”
Unfortunately, Brian, that’s the whole point. To be an atheist is to deny that there is a god or gods in this universe.
Everything Zum writes about atheism is incorrect. Zum doesn’t even given the full OED definition of atheism:
http://atheism.about.com/od/definitionofatheism/a/dict_standard_5.htm
Zum should have considered asking atheists what they believe and think, rather than presuming to tell them:
http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutatheism/p/atheism101.htm
Most people I know who don’t believe in god don’t seem to call themselves atheists. Since coming out of the closet and admitting I’m an atheist, it feels like everyone is saying… so what. I think I just like having a label.
Hey mothandrust
There is none more ignorant then those who are ignorant of their ignorance. At least now you can say that you are not to be classified along side with them. Welcome to the clan that is self aware enough to read what is written on our own labels. Cheers!